From 22c3bfee9148e1836817ef00b4829a8385570c69 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Christian Grothoff <christian@grothoff.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2022 17:04:26 +0200
Subject: update RMS articles

---
 .../blog/articles/en/rms-on-radio-nz.html          | 189 ++++++++++-----------
 1 file changed, 91 insertions(+), 98 deletions(-)

(limited to 'talermerchantdemos/blog/articles/en/rms-on-radio-nz.html')

diff --git a/talermerchantdemos/blog/articles/en/rms-on-radio-nz.html b/talermerchantdemos/blog/articles/en/rms-on-radio-nz.html
index 384dedb..73a5aab 100644
--- a/talermerchantdemos/blog/articles/en/rms-on-radio-nz.html
+++ b/talermerchantdemos/blog/articles/en/rms-on-radio-nz.html
@@ -1,39 +1,53 @@
 <!--#include virtual="/server/header.html" -->
-<!-- Parent-Version: 1.87 -->
+<!-- Parent-Version: 1.96 -->
+<!-- This page is derived from /server/standards/boilerplate.html -->
+<!--#set var="TAGS" value="speeches" -->
+<!--#set var="DISABLE_TOP_ADDENDUM" value="yes" -->
 <title>RMS on Radio New Zealand -
 GNU Project - Free Software Foundation</title>
+<style type="text/css" media="screen"><!--
+@media (min-width: 55em) { .toc li { display: inline-block; width: 95%; }}
+--></style>
 <!--#include virtual="/philosophy/po/rms-on-radio-nz.translist" -->
 <!--#include virtual="/server/banner.html" -->
-<h2>RMS on Radio NZ - October 2009</h2>
-
-<p><em>Interview between Kim Hill (presenter) and Richard M Stallman</em></p>
-<hr class="thin" />
-
-<div class="summary">
-<h3>Interesting sections</h3>
-<ul>
-<li>[<a href="#t0">00:00</a>] Introduction</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t1">00:40</a>] Surveillance</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t2">00:19</a>] Terrorism and 9/11</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t3">04:30</a>] Barack Obama</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t4">06:23</a>] Airline Security</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t5">08:02</a>] Digital Surveillance</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t6">10:26</a>] Systematic Surveillance</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t7">12:20</a>] Taxi surveillance</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t8">14:25</a>] Matters of Principle &mdash; cellphones</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t9">15:33</a>] Free Software and Freedom</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t10">17:24</a>] Free Trade treaties</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t11">20:08</a>] Cars, microwaves and planes</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t12">21:05</a>] Copying books</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t13">25:31</a>] E-books &amp; supporting artists</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t14">28:42</a>] Micropayments</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t15">30:47</a>] A simplistic political philosophy?</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t16">32:51</a>] Income</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t17">33:48</a>] Digital handcuffs &mdash; Amazon Kindle</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t18">36:13</a>] Buying books</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t19">37:16</a>] Social networking</li>
-<li>[<a href="#t20">38:08</a>] The
-<abbr title="Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement">ACTA</abbr></li>
+<!--#include virtual="/philosophy/ph-breadcrumb.html" -->
+<!--GNUN: OUT-OF-DATE NOTICE-->
+<!--#include virtual="/server/top-addendum.html" -->
+<div class="article reduced-width">
+<h2>RMS on Radio New Zealand</h2>
+
+<div class="infobox">
+<p>Transcript (by Jim Cheetham) of an interview between Kim Hill (presenter)
+and Richard Stallman in October 2009; originally published on
+<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20111114203543/http://nb.inode.co.nz/articles/rmsrnz2/index.html">
+<cite>iNode: Nota Bene</cite></a>.</p>
+</div>
+
+<div class="toc">
+<h3 class="no-display">Interesting sections</h3>
+<ul class="columns no-bullet">
+<li><a href="#t0">[00:00] Introduction</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t1">[00:40] Surveillance</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t2">[00:19] Terrorism and 9/11</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t3">[04:30] Barack Obama</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t4">[06:23] Airline Security</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t5">[08:02] Digital Surveillance</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t6">[10:26] Systematic Surveillance</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t7">[12:20] Taxi surveillance</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t8">[14:25] Matters of Principle&mdash;cellphones</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t9">[15:33] Free Software and Freedom</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t10">[17:24] Free Trade treaties</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t11">[20:08] Cars, microwaves and planes</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t12">[21:05] Copying books</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t13">[25:31] E-books &amp; supporting artists</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t14">[28:42] Micropayments</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t15">[30:47] A simplistic political philosophy?</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t16">[32:51] Income</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t17">[33:48] Digital handcuffs&mdash;Amazon Kindle</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t18">[36:13] Buying books</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t19">[37:16] Social networking</a></li>
+<li><a href="#t20">[38:08] The
+<abbr title="Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement">ACTA</abbr></a></li>
 </ul>
 <hr class="no-display" />
 </div>
@@ -48,7 +62,7 @@ patents and extensions of copyright laws.  His battle is, as he told
 us last year, against what he calls extreme capitalism.  His GNU
 operating system with Linux was the first Free operating system that
 could run on a PC.  Richard Stallman says &ldquo;it's all about
-freedom&rdquo;, a cause which goes beyond software; and we could talk
+freedom,&rdquo; a cause which goes beyond software; and we could talk
 about the others he's identified, surveillance and censorship, because
 he joins me now, hello.</dd>
 
@@ -73,7 +87,7 @@ mistreated that way.</dd>
 <dd>Because it's too much information to collect about people who
 aren't criminals.  And by the way for the same reason I will not ever
 go to Japan again unless they changed that policy, which makes me sad,
-but one must &hellip;</dd>
+but one must&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt id="t2">[01:19]<br />
 KH</dt>
@@ -93,14 +107,13 @@ prevent it from happening.</dd>
 9/11?</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
-<dd>I can't say &hellip; first of all I think it's unfair &mdash; we
+<dd>I can't say &hellip; first of all I think it's unfair&mdash;we
 know that the attack was a conspiracy.  All the theories are
 conspiracies.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>Well, all right, the conspiracy theory for example, that has the
-Bush administration staging the 9/11 attack in order to justify
-&hellip;</dd>
+Bush administration staging the 9/11 attack in order to justify&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>I don't know.  The only way there could ever be proof of that is
@@ -126,8 +139,8 @@ world's biggest danger, as an excuse for what they want to do, which
 is &hellip; and remember that these governments are much more
 dangerous, it's quite clear that Bush's invasion of Iraq was far more
 destructive than anything non state-sponsored terrorists have been
-able to do &mdash; that's assuming that those terrorists in September
-2001 were not state-sponsored, which we don't know &mdash; but the
+able to do&mdash;that's assuming that those terrorists in September
+2001 were not state-sponsored, which we don't know&mdash;but the
 point is, what Bush did by invading Iraq, using those attacks as an
 excuse, was tremendously worse and we must remember than governments
 gone amok can do far more damage than anybody not state-sponsored.
@@ -163,14 +176,14 @@ them or release them.  They're entitled to that.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>Yeah, they may be entitled to that but he's also democratically
-elected President who &hellip;</dd>
+elected President who&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>That doesn't mean he's entitled to violate human rights.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>No, but would the American people be in favor of the release of
-those &hellip;</dd>
+those&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>I don't know.</dd>
@@ -182,15 +195,15 @@ those &hellip;</dd>
 <dd>No it's not, if they're not that just makes them responsible.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
-<dd>I know you're &hellip;</dd>
+<dd>I know you're&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>I don't think I can excuse massive violations of human rights by
 saying that the public is maddened and supports it.  Especially, why
 are they so maddened?  Because of a constant propaganda campaign
-telling you &ldquo;Be terrified of terrorists&rdquo;, &ldquo;throw
+telling you &ldquo;Be terrified of terrorists, throw
 away your human rights and everyone else's because you're so scared of
-these terrorists&rdquo;.  It's disproportionate, we have to keep these
+these terrorists.&rdquo;  It's disproportionate, we have to keep these
 dangers in their proportion, there isn't a campaign saying &ldquo;be
 terrified of getting in a car&rdquo; but maybe there ought to be.</dd>
 
@@ -207,7 +220,7 @@ OK, that's a sensible measure.</dd>
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>But are you?  I would have thought that you would have said
 &ldquo;why would they spend money reinforcing the cabin doors because
-hijackers are a minor issue&rdquo;.</dd>
+hijackers are a minor issue.&rdquo;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>I'm not against spending a little bit of money.</dd>
@@ -235,7 +248,7 @@ gang.</dd>
 <dt id="t5">[08:02]<br />
 KH</dt>
 <dd>If you don't agree with surveillance, is there any way that you
-would accept that it might be quite a handy thing, CCTV &hellip;</dd>
+would accept that it might be quite a handy thing, CCTV&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>Wait a second, your view of surveillance is oversimplifying
@@ -245,7 +258,7 @@ governments like Romania under Ceau&#x0219;escu, or East Germany with
 the Stasi, they did a lot of surveillance but it took a lot of people
 working on it and even then it was limited what they could actually
 watch and record because it was so hard.  Now, we're entering a kind
-of surveillance society that has never been seen before &hellip;</dd>
+of surveillance society that has never been seen before&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>You're talking about digital surveillance.</dd>
@@ -315,7 +328,7 @@ say that they don't exist, or that they're no danger at all.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>No, the difficulty is being on guard against the danger that
-you've cited, without giving quarter to &hellip;</dd>
+you've cited, without giving quarter to&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt id="t7">[12:20]<br />
 RMS</dt>
@@ -339,7 +352,7 @@ in those ways.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>How come you can justify people being treated as if they're going
-to attack taxi drivers &hellip;</dd>
+to attack taxi drivers&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>But you see there the point is, those are not looked at unless
@@ -356,7 +369,7 @@ place I've been, that I bought anything in, what I bought.</dd>
 
 <dt id="t8">[14:25]<br />
 KH</dt>
-<dd>As a matter of principle, rather than &hellip;</dd>
+<dd>As a matter of principle, rather than&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>As a matter of principle.  It's not an issue of convenience.</dd>
@@ -389,14 +402,14 @@ that they're constantly saying where you are, and I just don't want to
 participate in a system like that, I think people shouldn't.  It would
 be very convenient for me to have a cellphone, I'm not one of those
 people who would, who says &ldquo;I resent the fact that people can
-call me&rdquo;, it's convenient when people can call me, but I'm not
+call me,&rdquo; it's convenient when people can call me, but I'm not
 going to do it that way.</dd>
 
 <dt id="t9">[15:33]<br />
 KH</dt>
 <dd>It's interesting that your battle for Free Software and the issues
 of freedom that you identify intersect.  They didn't start out being
-the same &mdash; or did they?</dd>
+the same&mdash;or did they?</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>Well they didn't start out being the same.  Pervasive digital
@@ -405,7 +418,7 @@ surveillance wasn't a big problem twenty-seven years ago.</dd>
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>But the people who were in charge were still the people who were
 in charge, the people who you identified as the people you didn't want
-to see &hellip;</dd>
+to see&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>Well actually they're not the same people.  Proprietary software's
@@ -421,11 +434,11 @@ capitalism.</dd>
 <dd>Well I'm sorry, when I say extreme capitalism I'm talking about a
 philosophy, and that philosophy says &ldquo;the market should control
 everything, everything should be for sale, and business should be
-allowed to dominate politics and get the laws it wants&rdquo;, which
+allowed to dominate politics and get the laws it wants,&rdquo; which
 is very different from mere capitalism, which says &ldquo;within a
 society which we set up to protect peoples rights and so on, there are
 lots of things that people should be free to do, and make businesses
-to do them, as they wish&rdquo;.  That difference is why today's form
+to do them, as they wish.&rdquo;  That difference is why today's form
 of capitalism is running wild and why we see free exploitation
 treaties which basically undermine democracy and turn it in to a
 sham.</dd>
@@ -449,7 +462,7 @@ do it.
 <span class="gnun-split"></span>Of course it was they who decided to adopt that treaty in the
 first place which they shouldn't have done.  But then a lot of these
 treaties go beyond that, and they explicitly deny democracy.  Now the
-US had a law that said it wouldn't sell tuna &mdash; you weren't
+US had a law that said it wouldn't sell tuna&mdash;you weren't
 allowed to sell tuna in the US if it had been caught in a way that
 endangered dolphins.  Well that law had to be scrapped because of the
 World Trade Organization, that's just one example.</dd>
@@ -466,7 +479,7 @@ way of that, we owe them.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>Of course, we're in favor of Free Trade here, Richard, because we
-rely on it &hellip;</dd>
+rely on it&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>Well I'm not in favor of free trade beyond a certain point.  The
@@ -602,8 +615,7 @@ start wanting the money more, and the thing that they used to yearn to
 do, they want less.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
-<dd>So if being read and appreciated is what authors want
-&hellip;</dd>
+<dd>So if being read and appreciated is what authors want&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>Well they start out wanting.  Those who have got rich, some of
@@ -627,7 +639,7 @@ penury.</dd>
 <dd>Oh no I'm not, you're mistaken.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
-<dd>If they cannot sell the book &hellip;</dd>
+<dd>If they cannot sell the book&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>You're mistaken, you're making a projection which people who know
@@ -662,8 +674,8 @@ and I'm against it, because the freedom to share must be respected.
 the current system mostly supports corporations, so I don't think it
 works very well.  And it makes a few authors quite rich, and those get
 treated with great deference by the corporations, and the rest
-basically get ground into the dust.  My proposals &mdash; I have two,
-and another that combines them &mdash; one proposal is support artists
+basically get ground into the dust.  My proposals&mdash;I have two,
+and another that combines them&mdash;one proposal is support artists
 using taxes, it could either be a specific tax on Internet
 connectivity or general funds, it wouldn't be a tremendous amount of
 money by comparison with other government expenditures, and then you
@@ -734,7 +746,7 @@ it.</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>What about getting rid of taxes entirely, and giving us all the
-power to direct &hellip;</dd>
+power to direct&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>I'm not against taxes.</dd>
@@ -841,8 +853,8 @@ Free Software that can break digital handcuffs.  More and more
 products are designed with digital handcuffs, that is features to stop
 the user from doing things.  So nowadays when I hear about a new
 product or a new service my first thought is &ldquo;what's malicious
-in that?&rdquo;, &ldquo;how is it designed to restrict what you can
-do?&rdquo;.  And these products are very malicious, for instance there
+in that? How is it designed to restrict what you can
+do?&rdquo;  And these products are very malicious, for instance there
 is the Amazon Kindle, it's an e-book reader, and they call it the
 Kindle to express what it's designed to do to our books&nbsp;[<a href="#f1">1</a>].</dd>
 
@@ -879,7 +891,7 @@ dependent on any company's goodwill.</dd>
 <dt id="t18">[36:13]<br />
 RMS</dt>
 <dd>I buy books from bookstores, yes I go to a store and I say
-&ldquo;I want that one&rdquo;.</dd>
+&ldquo;I want that one.&rdquo;</dd>
 
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>And you hand money over for it?  Even though you think that that's
@@ -900,7 +912,7 @@ get some money.  With academic textbooks they generally don't.</dd>
 <dt>KH</dt>
 <dd>As a matter of interest we've been talking about freedoms,
 surveillance and digital monitoring, does the extraordinary rise of
-social networking &hellip;</dd>
+social networking&hellip;</dd>
 
 <dt>RMS</dt>
 <dd>I buy CDs of music as well even though in that case I know the
@@ -942,7 +954,7 @@ publishers what's in the text that they're working on, but they won't
 tell the public.  So the point is that the; many governments,
 including of course the US are conspiring in secret to impose new
 restrictions on us relating to copyright and part of their latest
-propaganda is they call sharing &ldquo;counterfeiting&rdquo;.  
+propaganda is they call sharing &ldquo;counterfeiting.&rdquo;  
 <span class="gnun-split"></span>But the
 point is that this treaty will have provisions to restrict the public,
 we think, but they won't tell us.  This is called Policy Laundering,
@@ -960,17 +972,18 @@ time.</dd>
 </dl>
 
 <div class="column-limit"></div>
-<h3 style="font-size: 1.2em">Footnote</h3>
+<h3 class="footnote">Footnote</h3>
 <ol>
   <li id="f1">[2019] We call it <a
 href="/philosophy/why-call-it-the-swindle.html">the Swindle</a>
 because it's designed to swindle readers out of the traditional
 freedoms of readers of books.</li>
 </ol>
+</div>
 
 </div><!-- for id="content", starts in the include above -->
 <!--#include virtual="/server/footer.html" -->
-<div id="footer">
+<div id="footer" role="contentinfo">
 <div class="unprintable">
 
 <p>Please send general FSF &amp; GNU inquiries to
@@ -988,51 +1001,31 @@ to <a href="mailto:webmasters@gnu.org">&lt;webmasters@gnu.org&gt;</a>.</p>
         to <a href="mailto:web-translators@gnu.org">
         &lt;web-translators@gnu.org&gt;</a>.</p>
 
-        <p>For information on coordinating and submitting translations of
+        <p>For information on coordinating and contributing translations of
         our web pages, see <a
         href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations
         README</a>. -->
 Please see the <a
 href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations
-README</a> for information on coordinating and submitting translations
+README</a> for information on coordinating and contributing translations
 of this article.</p>
 </div>
 
-<!-- Regarding copyright, in general, standalone pages (as opposed to
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-
-<!-- This page is an exception; only the web page copyright year should
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-<p>Web page Copyright &copy; 2014, 2019, 2020 Free Software Foundation, Inc.</p>
-<p>Transcript Copyright &copy; 2009, 2010 Jim Cheetham.</p>
-
-<p>This transcript is licensed under the 
-<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/nz/">Creative 
-Commons Attribution-NonCommercial NoDerivatives New Zealand</a> license.
+<p>Transcript Copyright &copy; 2009, 2010 Jim Cheetham</p>
+
+<p>This transcript is licensed under the <a rel="license"
+href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/nz/">Creative 
+Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 3.0 New Zealand License</a>.
 </p>
 
 <!--#include virtual="/server/bottom-notes.html" -->
 
 <p class="unprintable">Updated:
 <!-- timestamp start -->
-$Date: 2020/07/01 15:25:23 $
+$Date: 2022/06/09 12:46:36 $
 <!-- timestamp end -->
 </p>
 </div>
-</div>
+</div><!-- for class="inner", starts in the banner include -->
 </body>
 </html>
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